Green Loon says Geert Wilders not welcome in Australia

Controversial Dutch MP's visa bid stalls

7.30 ABC
By Hayden Cooper
18912

Supporters of controversial anti-Islam campaigner Geert Wilders fear he may be refused entry to Australia ahead of his planned speaking tour next month.

The right-wing Dutch MP has applied for a visa to come and give speeches in Sydney and Melbourne, but the application has stalled.

In a climate of tension after the weekend's Muslim protest in Sydney, the issue presents a tricky dilemma for the Federal Government.

Mr Wilders has a reputation the world over as a fierce opponent of Islam.

He has compared the Koran to Hitler's Mein Kampf, called Islam an ideology not a religion, and called the Prophet Mohammed a paedophile among other insults.

"Mohammed was a warlord, he was a terrorist and maybe a terrorist worse than Bin Laden ever was at the time, look at what he did in his time in the past, in his Medina time - this is not the example to follow," he told Foreign Correspondent last year.

His speaking tour of Australia has been organised by an obscure anti-Islamic group called the Q Society, which takes a similar hard line.

Spokesman Andrew Horwood says the group are "ordinary Australians who are concerned about the march of Islam into this country".

"We are non-political, we are a secular organisation, and we've seen what's happened in Europe and we're concerned about that," he said.

"Our charter is to educate the Australian population about what Australia will be like in 20 or 30 years' time with Islam if we choose not to understand it."

Visa delayed
Mr Wilders applied for a visa three weeks ago.

His staff and security were approved within days, but he is still waiting and his sponsors want to know why.

"We find it very strange that a visa is taking so long to come from a politician of a respected democracy," Mr Horwood said.

He's coming here to give the advantage of his knowledge, the advantage of what's happening in Europe, and I cannot see why it's not an automatic thing: 'yes, you're welcome here.'

Q Society spokesman Andrew Horwood
"It should be an automatic thing. He's coming here to give the advantage of his knowledge, the advantage of what's happening in Europe, and I cannot see why it's not an automatic thing: 'yes, you're welcome here'.

"I cannot understand why everything has just ground to a halt."

The reason is that the Dutch politician is on the Movement Alert List, a database of people of concern to Australia. 

It means his application is held up at the Department of Immigration headquarters in Canberra while more thorough checks are done.

He is on the list because of his previous brushes with authorities abroad.

In 2009 he was refused entry to the UK but later appealed and won.

He was also tried and acquitted in the Netherlands on hate charges over his controversial public comments.

It is not clear if he will be granted a visa.

Tricky call
Greens Senator Richard Di Natale says Mr Wilders is not welcome in Australia.

"We don't want to see Geert Wilders in this country. His views are not welcome here," he said.

"My dear brothers and sisters in Islam, as the world gathers against the believers in Syria ... seeking to hijack our sincere and blessed uprisings, children in Sydney would like to send their message of hope and support to the Muslims of (Syria), especially to the children and mothers," Ruqaya said in her speech.

"These uprisings have demonstrated that this umma (global Muslim community) is alive and well, her love is for jihad, she is unshackled herself from the fear which she held, and she yearns to once again live under the banner of (the Islamic state).

"Children as young as myself can be seen on the streets joining the uprisings, risking their lives to bring food, water and medicine to their wounded family members, some of them never returning to their mothers ... Nobody is too young," she said.

Sydney Muslim Insurgency Riots: Ahmed Elomar refused Bail again

 "This country's got a great story when it comes to multiculturalism, it's part of my own personal story, it's something we should all be proud of and here we've got a man who is the antithesis of multiculturalism."

Greens Senator Richard Di Natale 

The final tricky call could ultimately fall to Immigration Minister Chris Bowen.

Mr Bowen says no decision has been made and he has received no advice yet from the department.

Opponents of Mr Wilders do not want him here, but they fear rejecting the visa application is a bad idea.

"We don't think that he should come. The question of whether he should be granted a visa is a separate one," Senator Di Natale said.

We don't think that he should come, the question of whether he should be granted a visa is a separate one.

Greens Senator Richard di Natale
"I think that by denying Geert Wilders a visa, there is the potential to give his cause more oxygen.

"We don't want to do that."

After the weekend's Muslim protest in Sydney, the planned visit to Australia may well add to the tension.

The decision for the minister comes after he approved a visa for Taji Mustafa, the British head of Islamist group Hizb Ut-Tahrir.

Mr Mustafa, though, is not on the Movement Alert List.

"I inquired as to whether Mr Mustafa had any relevant criminal convictions, he did not," Mr Bowen told Parliament this week.

"I inquired as to whether he is a member of a proscribed organisation, he is not. I took all the relevant steps required methodically."

When the Wilders trip was first flagged a year ago, the MP mentioned the help of South Australian Liberal senator Cory Bernardi.

But Senator Bernardi has told 7.30 he has had no involvement in organising the visit.

Sydney Muslim Insurgency Riots: Ahmed Elomar refused Bail again

Former boxer Ahmed Elomar

Refused Bail Bail by Magistrate Clare Farnan in Central Local Court 
Tuesday 18 9 12.

Police prosecutors argued Elomar was part of a group which police believed approached the US consulate "despite police attempts to disperse the crowd".

Ahmed Elomar, 29, appeared by video link at Central Local Court.

Police argued that Elomar had been involved in the riot which "gave rise to serious risk of public safety", the court heard.
Around ten Muslim supporters some dressed in night attire,refused to stand when Magistrate Clare Farnan entered the Court and shouted out
at the end of proceedings.
No reports of assaults upon court staff or by standers have been received by Police so far.

Insolent Supporters Mock Court 

Backers taunted the court

The Daily Telegraph
September 19, 2012 12:00AM

ONE of the angry protesters featured on The Daily Telegraph's front page yesterday has walked into court right under the noses of police - and walked out again.

Wearing a white skullcap and sunglasses the man, who uses the name Abu Sayd, was among a group of supporters who attended court to support Ahmed Elomar. They appeared determined to act as a law unto themselves.

Sitting in Central Local Court as Elomar appeared via videolink, the group of at least 10 men laughed and waved at him during the bail application.

Elomar played with his beard and smiled back at his friends.

When the case returned after lunch the men didn't stand as Magistrate Clare Farnan came on to the bench, as is court protocol. After she said their friend would stay behind bars, the group stood up and shouted in Arabic .

Among media crews outside court were a number of police officers, who filmed the group as they walked in and out of the building during the day.

A police spokesman said police were still going through photographs and footage of Saturday's riot to determine exactly who had committed what offences.

"Then police will proceed to arrest and lay charges," the spokesman said.

Strike force McAlister, formed to investigate and identify those involved in the violent protest, appealed for members of the public with footage to come forward.

Digital photographs or footage can be uploaded to Crime Stoppers through the NSW Police website via the link: police.nsw.gov.au.

Sydney Riots: The radicalization of Muslim children you have when you are not radicalizing Muslim Children

Islamic Leaders Upset at Behead Mum

By Stephen Johnson,
YahooNews
September 18, 2012, 12:02 pm

Islamic community leaders deny their children are being radicalised after a mother whose young son held a sign calling for beheadings turned herself in to police.

The woman went to police on Monday but NSW Family and Community Services Minister Pru Goward says the boy will stay with his parents.

"The police then went back to the house and assessed the children and assessed that they were safe so that is where they remain," Ms Goward told ABC radio.

Senior Muslim community figures have condemned the action of the woman, whose boy was photographed holding a sign saying "Behead all those who insult the Prophet" at Saturday's violent protest in Sydney against an anti-Islamic film.

The image quickly went viral, sparking community outrage and calls by Premier Barry O'Farrell for an investigation by the Department of Family Services.

Lebanese Muslim Association president Samier Dandan says while he welcomes the mother's decision to go to police, he disapproves of the behaviour.

"That's something that we don't encourage within our community, it's something we condemn," he told reporters at Lakemba mosque in Sydney's west on Tuesday.

Mr Dandan said he would try to talk to the mother, but added he had been told the boy may have found the sign on the street and was "caught up in the hype" during the demonstrations.
Even at such a young age the blood lust for decapitation over rides any innocence normally found in children in Australia.

"Does a child really understand what's written on that placard?" he said.

Silma Ihram, a board member of the Australian Muslim Women's Association, said she did not believe such incidents were widespread as she fronted the Lakemba news conference with Mr Dandan on behalf of 25 Muslim groups.

"We are sick and tired of everyone mocking our beloved Prophet," protester Houda Dib told 
"They have no right to mock our Prophet. We don't go around mocking anyone's religion."
One speaker called for calm, saying the aim of their protest had been to send a message.
"We are here for the sake of our God," he said.
"The message is clear, you cannot mock (the Prophet)."

As it happened: Violence erupts in Sydney over anti-Islam film

Radicalisation of Children ? No No Nooooooooooo Nothing to see here it's perfectly healthy for a small child to demand that anyone they disagree with be Decapitated.

"I don't believe that there is a radicalisation of children," she said.

Ms Ihram said that in a democratic nation, parents should feel free to take their children to demonstrations.

"We don't want to see a situation where people are afraid to take their children and participate," she said.

The radicalization of Muslim children you have when you are not radicalizing Muslim Children

Video captures 8-year-old 'Jihad girl' urging Islamic uprising

Daily Telegraph
September 18, 20129:35AM

8-year-old Ruqaya,Hizb ut-Tahrir,Bankstown,Taji Mustafa hate preacher,Syria,Silma Ihram,Pru Goward,Lebanese Muslim Association president Samier Dandan,Australian Muslim Women's Association,Lakemba Mosque 

SHE may be the youngest voice of Islamic fundamentalism to be broadcast in Australia.

This is a recording of 8-year-old Ruqaya urging other children to join the fight for a global Islamic state. As she sees it, “nobody is too young”.

Ruqaya delivered her speech to an audience of 600 at a conference called Muslims Rise, hosted by an Islamic group called Hizb ut-Tahrir. It was held in Bankstown in Sydney’s west on Sunday.  

Muslims Rise advocates the restoration of the Islamic caliphate - a global government for all muslims, operating under strict sharia law.

Ruqaya was one of nine speakers in a considerable line-up, which included a controversial keynote from Taji Mustafa, described by the Opposition as a "hate preacher".

"My dear brothers and sisters in Islam, as the world gathers against the believers in Syria ... seeking to hijack our sincere and blessed uprisings, children in Sydney would like to send their message of hope and support to the Muslims of (Syria), especially to the children and mothers," Ruqaya said in her speech.

"These uprisings have demonstrated that this umma (global Muslim community) is alive and well, her love is for jihad, she is unshackled herself from the fear which she held, and she yearns to once again live under the banner of (the Islamic state).

"Children as young as myself can be seen on the streets joining the uprisings, risking their lives to bring food, water and medicine to their wounded family members, some of them never returning to their mothers ... Nobody is too young," she said.

Sydney CBD Muslim Insurgent Riot Govt. and apologists start the SPIN

Why we must stop turning the other cheek

Ed Husic 
The Daily Telegraph 
September 17, 2012 
12:00AM

HOW many times have you heard something offensive or just plain wrong said about another person or group and then turned the other way - because it's simply not worth the grief of the subsequent argument?

I know I have. I don't think I'm the only one. But after the events in Sydney, I don't think we can keep turning away.

The weekend's protests were completely over the top and cannot be justified.

What triggered them was a deep hurt and outrage at a video that caused great offence to followers of the Islamic faith.

But violence is never the first response to this kind of offence. It's not the second response. Frankly, it's never the response.

There are always the misinformed, the foolish and the spiteful who will make comments to upset followers of all religions.

While many religions - including Islam - counsel against responding to provocation, we saw a completely unjustifiable response in Sydney and internationally.

As someone on Twitter rightly said yesterday: "No, we can't be responsible for what others say or do but we can be responsible for how we react."

A Twitter hashtag's been started up by DiversityAus board member Mariam Veiszadeh: #MAVSP or Muslims Against Violent Sydney Protests.

Showing the actions of one person can powerfully unify many, Mariam's sparked a vigorous response via social media bringing likeminded people together to stand up against violence and build understanding.

Ed Husic, the first Muslim to be elected to Parliament leaves after taking the oath during the swearing in ceremony at the opening of the 43rd Parliament, Canberra, on Sept. 28, 2010 Canberra, Australia. The opening comes five weeks after the federal election resulted in a hung parliament and left the country waiting while Independent MPs deliberated to ultimately form a minority government.

on Sept. 28, 2010 C

That's been followed by leading organisations representing Muslims from all walks of life condemning the violence.

The reaction from the overwhelming majority of Muslims in Australia will rightly be that a small but violent group among the 200 protesters weren't representative of the majority. And they're spot on. They were just as unrepresentative of the Islamic faith as the Cronulla rioters of 2005 were unrepresentative of the rest of the country.

But the problem is this: they are representative of someone. And this is where turning away will no longer work.

We need more and more moderate Muslims speaking up against violence - as has occurred - but more conversations also within communities to build an atmosphere of total "zero tolerance" for the type of reaction we saw on Saturday.

I bet you thought good ole Ed was not going to include the Obligatory BUT Monkey didn't you ?
Ed is a good Muslim and he would never leave out the usual Islamic caveat on what Australians must sacrifice in order for non Judeo / Christian's aka."his community"/co religionists, to behave like civilized human beings every now and then, aka. not BEHEAD us or gang rape our wives and daughters.

We also cannot turn a blind eye to those who deliberately whip up religious hatreds while claiming freedom of expression. While we cherish that freedom, does that give free licence to post videos claiming awful things just because they're free to do so?If you thought the signs at Saturday's protests expressed awful sentiments (which I did) then logic suggests that that video should be categorised the same way (which I do). analysis and criticism is one thing -Expression designed to be deliberately provocative and injure the deeply held views and values of others is something I'll never support or respect.

Ed Husic, elected in 2010, is the first Muslim to enter federal parliament.

Muslim Insurgent refused Bail over Sydney CBD Riot

Australia's Freedom FROM Information Minister calls for Video Ban

The Bolt Report, September 16 2012 Pt's 1,2 and 3

Why would the Australian Government help facilitate this.......

September 15 2012 : Sydney's "Harmony Day" who's responsible ?

The Australian in this Coffin.......

Muslim Insurgents Sydney Riot latest Video and Pictures

Sydney under attack from Muslim Insurgents

Muslim Insurgents Sydney Riot latest Video and Pictures

Muslim Insurgent refused Bail over Sydney CBD Riot

Pious Muslim Insurgent has a six page criminal record

Man refused bail over Sydney protest

Herald Sun

September 16, 2012 2:05PM

 

A FATHER of three charged with affray after a Sydney protest against an anti-Islam film turned violent has been refused bail.

Ahmed Elomar, a 29-year-old champion boxer, was one of six men charged over demonstrations in central Sydney on Saturday but the only one denied bail.

The other defendants will face court next month.

Elomar displayed little emotion as he appeared in Parramatta Bail Court via video link on Sunday wearing a T-shirt displaying the phrase "6th pillar".

He had been charged with affray and previously breaching bail for driving offences.

Defence lawyer Greg Scragg argued that his client had not taken part in alleged acts of throwing bottles at police during the Sydney protest, adding that a shoulder injury sustained from a skiing accident in August had been exacerbated by his arrest.

"He was caught up in circumstances that got out of hand," Mr Scragg said.

"His arrest was not justified. His arrest was done in circumstances of over-policing.

"He was taken to the ground. While he was on the ground he was kneed in the back, he was sprayed with pepper spray."

Magistrate Andrew George said Elomar had breached bail for driving offences and could not be trusted to obey his bail conditions.

"His disqualified driving offence raises concern that he's a person who holds contempt for orders made before the court," Mr George said.

Elomar's matter was adjourned until September 18 for a plea or mention at Central Local Court.

Police were called to Parramatta Bail Court after one of Elomar's supporters threatened cameramen from the Seven and Nine networks with violence.

The police were summoned by court authorities. Ten supporters left the courthouse without incident.

My boy Trigger brainwashed by a Muslim cleric

Taghred Chandab 

Brisbane Times

 July 1, 2007

Ahmed Elomar and his wife Najatt on their wedding day.

Photo: Adam Hollingworth

THE angry father of an Australian boxing champion arrested in Lebanon said yesterday his son had been brainwashed by a radical Muslim cleric who had been based in Liverpool.

Father-of-five Mamdouh Elomar attacked Sheik Feiz Mohammed yesterday, saying his hardline approach to Islam was wrong. He told The Sun-Herald that he urged his children to stay away from the cleric and the Global Islamic Youth Centre at Liverpool.

"Sheiks like Sheik Feiz ruin people," he said from his south-west Sydney home.

"He is not a sheik. He is brainwashing all these children. I know my religion so I can tell him when he is wrong, but these kids believe everything he says and think it's their religion. Someone needs to stop him.

"Today our kids are either at one extreme, partying or using drugs, or at another extreme with their religion. I don't teach my children to hate non-Muslims. I have taught them to love everyone."

Mr Elomar's son Ahmed, 24, nicknamed "Trigger" in the boxing community, was arrested in Lebanon last month with two other Australians, Ibrahim Sabouh and Mohammad Basal, and accused of having links to a terror cell in Lebanon. The men have not been charged.

He had been holidaying in Tripoli, Lebanon, for two weeks with his wife, Najat, 25, and two sons aged five and three before his arrest 11 days ago. The young father was considering moving to Lebanon after falling in love with the country last year.

The Sun-Herald understands that the featherweight champion, who is also the nephew of Sydney terror suspect Mohammad Ali Elomar, left his wife's family home at 10am with several friends and was arrested several hours later. His father said it was still unclear if he was arrested in a raid or on the street for not having identification.

"I know in my heart that my son has done nothing wrong," Mr Elomar said. "But if he has, I support the Lebanese Government and army. Ahmed is a good boy and cheeky, but he has a soft heart."

He said he had never heard of Ibrahim Sabouh, but thought his son might have known Mohammad Basal.

Ahmed, also known as "the Lebanese cowboy" because of his passion for Arabian horses, was devastated after his uncle was arrested in November 2005.

"It's disappointing because my uncle's not like that," he said in 2005. "It's upset the whole family."

Meanwhile, Sheik Feiz, who is working as a carpenter in Malaysia having earlier moved to Lebanon to escape constant ASIO surveillance, said through an associate last week that he was aware that he was wanted for questioning in Lebanon.

He said he was outraged by the allegations that he and his friends were linked to a terror cell.

"We should be entitled to say what we want so as long as we don't hurt anyone," he said through his associate.

"I know they [Lebanese authorities] want to talk to me, but I am not afraid because I haven't done anything. I will leave it in God's hands."

Sheik Feiz also said he had spoken to a Lebanese citizen captured with the Australians who witnessed one of the men being beaten.

He said he wanted the Australian Government to try harder to help its citizens.

Australia's Freedom FROM Information Minister calls for Video Ban

One of Australia's very own "Arse Clown Idiots in Search of a Village" ,Federal Minister for Freedom FROM Information and Propaganda, Senator Stephen CONroy calls for Banning Mohammed  Video... It's not known if he has ordered You Tube to remove any more material he deemed offensive to His and his Governments Muslim pals 


Conroy urges YouTube to pull video

The AGE
September 16, 2012 - 6:13PM

Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has called for YouTube to consider taking down a video that ridicules the Prophet Mohammed which sparked a violent protest in Sydney yesterday.

A spokesman for Senator Conroy said the video, Innocence of Muslims, by an American filmmaker who calls himself "Sam Bacile" was "clearly offensive and (YouTube's owner) Google should review its terms of service to see if they are being appropriately applied in this case."
"Australia has strong anti-vilification laws. If people believe this video is in breach of these laws they can make a complaint to Google or the Human Rights Commission," the spokesman said.
"What people shouldn't do is engage in violent protests on the streets. It is totally unacceptable behaviour and should be condemned."

A YouTube spokesman said the video was "clearly within our guidelines and so will stay on YouTube."
The spokesman said the company had restricted access to the video in countries where it is illegal such as India and Indonesia, as well as in Libya and Egypt because of "the very sensitive situations in these two countries."
"We work hard to create a community everyone can enjoy and which also enables people to express different opinions. This can be a challenge because what's OK in one country can be offensive elsewhere," the spokesman said.

Australia: Labor’s SECRET Internet Censorship / Snoop LAWS on hold until after August 2010 Federal election “……disclosure of the document uncensored "could be misleading to the public and cause confusion and premature and unnecessary debate".

NO CLEAN FEED

The Bolt Report, September 16 2012 Pt's 1,2 and 3

Why would the Australian Government help facilitate this.......

Islams Plan

Muhammad and Incitement to Violence

September 15 2012 : Sydney's "Harmony Day" who's responsible ?

Who's Responsible ?

The interview between the former Howard Government immigration minister Philip Ruddock was conducted on the Alan Jones show, then on radio 2UE,in October 29 2001.

The purpose of the interview was to answer thousands of Australians questioning how Islam's "Sydney's Occupied Territories" Loon Sheik Hilalie was allowed to live in Australia along with the general question of how Muslims were permitted to enter Australia via our immigration system.

"If any one wants to know how a grub like Hilalie could ever get into Australia and then be granted citizenship and then rejoice in the murder of 18 Australians and some 2,900 men women and children from all over the world at the World Trade Center it's easy, just arrive when the country is been run by the Australian Socialist Labor Party that needs votes to stay in power regardless of the economic social or security cost's
MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS

Interview with Alan Jones, 2UE October 29 2001   

ALAN JONES: This boat people issue doesn't go away. The Prime Minister yesterday, in launching his policy, made the simple point that the Government will decide who comes into Australia and on what terms. It's as simple as that, and it is simple. How many times have I made the point that if you're going to determine who comes into your home and on what terms, surely we as a nation have that entitlement in relation to our national home.

But now we have the spectacle after last week and an Indonesian fishing boat sinking and 350 so-called asylum seekers dying, we've got the spectacle of three Indonesian warships searching for a fishing boat ! allegedly hijacked by Iraqi asylum seekers and believed to be heading to Australia.

Now, the search was under way since last Thursday, the day after it was reportedly seized by 170 asylum seekers. But now it has been found drifting off the Indonesian island of Sumbawa and the boat people have been taken by smaller boats to the village of Sangyang which is an hour's sail away. It's said that the boat was hijacked by a group of Iraqi refugees who want to go to Australia. So the debate goes on.

As one editorial wrote at the weekend, "When Australians awoke last week to the image of three little girls staring from almost every newspaper front page, many felt a surge of sorrow and a huge pang of guilt. Suddenly, protecting our borders from asylum seekers seemed flint-hearted. What nation could be so stony as to turn away the sweet innocence? Surely not the land of a fair go."

But it went on. "A mourning Muslim community was quick to blame the Government. After ! all, it was argued the girls would never have been on board that leaking rust bucket had it not been for our law designed to ensure those who seek refugee status really are refugees."

It said, "The Muslim community, so deeply touched by tragedy, could easily be forgiven for reacting in anger." And then it said, "The truth is somewhat different." It said, "It should be remembered that those who choose Australia as a destination do so not because they've suddenly become imbued with Aussie fervour, it's because the people-smuggling industry sees us as an easy target. The softer we get, the more they will come."

And it's on again. We woke yesterday to headlines which cried, "Mutiny on the Ocean - Vessels Head for Australia." And then of course in the middle of all this last week, we've got Sheik Taj el-Din Al Hilaly, the alleged spiritual leader of Australia's 300,000 Muslims, accusing John Howard and government policy of having "opened the gates to death" to the asy! lum seekers who drowned off Indonesia.

And that has led to a flood of comments, emails and faxes from you to me about the Sheik, such that it's time we spoke to the Immigration Minister about what this bloke is saying, who he is and how long he can go on saying it. And Philip Ruddock is on the line.

Minister, good morning.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Morning, Alan.

ALAN JONES: What about this mutiny on the ocean? What is the update, and what do you know on that?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Well, no more than the reports. I mean, obviously while we're in touch with the Indonesian authorities, they don't brief us on all of these developments. But I'm pleased that we haven't seen a further loss of life because I think the events of last week were tragic and one wouldn't want to see those sorts of things happening again.

And as far as I'm concerned, if we were to relax our approach and encourage more people to think that they should come this way, we would only ! be exposing more children to a possible death in the same way that these children have died.

ALAN JONES: There is talk today that two Indonesian police officers have been arrested over the fishing boat that sank on October 19 with only 44 of its passengers surviving. Can you confirm that?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: I can't, but it's a matter for the Indonesian authorities to, of course, progress. They've been obviously very concerned about many of the claims that have been made - I would be - and they've sought to deal with it.

And our view all along was that it was a matter for the Indonesians to handle. It's within their boundaries, they're a sovereign nation and they've got responsibility in relation to any complaints that are made about their law enforcement officers.

ALAN JONES: There's talk of 3,000 more boat people expected to head for Australia in the next few weeks and the Indonesian Government saying there are 4,000 illegal immigrants waiting to sail! to Australia. Is that consistent with your intelligence?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Not quite. I mean, the sorts of numbers that we've known to be in the hands of smugglers - that is, we've identified particular smugglers who might be planning to bring boats to Australia - don't suggest the numbers are immediately as high as that. But the reports of up to 4,000 in Indonesia and possibly another 4,000 in Malaysia are very real.

ALAN JONES: Is there a need to re-examine the quotas on refugees who are found to be genuine? We allow in about 12,000 a year.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Well, I mean, Mr Beazley's not arguing that we should and the reason he's not is that there is a very heavy cost. And it's one of the draw factors, of course. I mean, for us it's $30 million per thousand on the forward estimates. So I mean, you can decide that you're going to spend that money on additional refugees being resettled in Australia, but I look at what's happening at the moment in Pakistan, f! or instance, and I think to myself, well, what would $30 million do in terms of looking after millions of people who are in dire straits.

And I think that certainly the approach being taken by the international community at this stage is that an evacuation of modest numbers of people from Pakistan is not going to deal with the very much larger crisis that Pakistan faces. And I think it has to be seen in that context.

And there's no amount of people that we could take that would limit, I think, the groups of people with money to travel and still vulnerable to the blandishments of smugglers.

ALAN JONES: Okay. Well, down to the thing that has concerned my listeners - and I have been inundated and I suppose you have as well. But they're asking me how much longer that Australians have to cop the kind of stuff that this Sheik Taj el-Din Al Hilaly went on with last week arguing that you and the Prime Minister and government policy had "opened the gates of death! ."

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Well look, I wasn't very impressed with the comments, as you can imagine, and I'd seen the Sheik several hours before he made them and didn't make them to my face.

I said - look, one of the things in your introduction I'd just pick up. I think it's unfair to say that all Muslims take the view that the government policy in this area is wrong. Many Muslims I know very strongly support the approach that we take because they believe we're a…

ALAN JONES: But this bloke calls himself the spiritual leader.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Yeah well, he does that but his position is not as sound as that and he's been - essentially, I think there are very significant splits within the Islamic community.

ALAN JONES: Well, Alan Ramsey who's been around Canberra longer than you have - and that's saying something…

PHILIP RUDDOCK: I saw Alan…

ALAN JONES: Well, he wrote at the weekend - and I just want to take you through some of this beca! use my listeners want some answers - that 11 years ago, as Opposition spokesman on immigration, you pursued questions never answered as to why the Hawke Labor Government granted this bloke, Al Hilaly, permanent residency in 1990, that eight years earlier, he said, the Sheik had arrived in Sydney from Egypt under the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils on a three-month visa and his family never left.

Now there were several convictions, intellectual convictions against this bloke and many want to know how he still remains in the light of saying the things he said.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Well, I mean, Alan Ramsey's story went through it and I think there were some other stories at the same time, that related what happened. I mean, this…

ALAN JONES: He was accused of inciting racial hatred.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Yes, and Chris Herford, who was the former Minister, determined that in character terms he should not remain in Australia.

ALAN JONES: That's r! ight.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: And he issued a deportation order.

ALAN JONES: That's in 1986.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: And that was overturned because there were representations made by essentially the Lebanese Muslim Association in Sydney to the Members of Parliament - I think Leo McLeay was one and Paul Keating was another.

ALAN JONES: Alan Ramsey said that Hilaly had been supported by strong New South Wales and federal ALP lobbying and survived.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Well, as I understand it, there was very strong lobbying, and I spoke to Robert Ray at the time. He made the decisions that he would be able to continue to remain here on a temporary basis. They were renewed, as I understand it, for a number of years, and Ray I think was a bit nervous that there may be a change in an election. It didn't happen. There was a Labor Government was returned and Hilaly was given permanent residency.

And once he was granted permanent residency, provided he remained i! n Australia, he was eligible for citizenship.

ALAN JONES: Let's go back a bit, just go back a bit, because…

PHILIP RUDDOCK: …while Gerry Hand was Minister…

ALAN JONES: Let's go back a bit though before we get to Gerry Hand because you're going fairly quickly but my listeners would want us to go a bit more slowly.

In October 1998, you demanded his visa be withdrawn after, as Ramsey rightly reports, a series of virulent anti-Semitic comments were attributed to a speech he made at the University of Sydney. I should repeat that Ramsey at the weekend said the comments were published in a Jewish newspaper and contained a reference to Jews as the underlying cause of all wars and that Jews who "used sex and abominable acts of buggery to control the world."

And this bloke, in spite of overtures that such a person shouldn't be kept in this country, has been kept here.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: And the reason he's been kept here is that the decisions the L! abor Government took at that time gave him permanent residency and then citizenship, and once you achieve citizenship, it cannot be revoked. And you know, when we came into office…

ALAN JONES: So the deportation order of Herford was revoked by Herford's successor?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: That's right.

ALAN JONES: To placate an ethnic community in the run-up to the July '87 election?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: There were very significant pressures put on at that time, and former Prime Minister Keating, I believe, was the person who pushed for the Minister at that time to take those decisions.

ALAN JONES: Ramsey wrote on Saturday that privately the Sheik had travelled to Canberra for a meeting with McLeay and Keating and when Robert Ray learnt of it - the Minister - he deferred the Sheik's application for a year on the grounds of collusion. And Ramsey said that Keating wouldn't speak to Robert Ray for months.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Well, I know none of that. But ! I know that Ray was not keen to make the decision, but I know the decision was made and I know when I came Minister in 1996 it was a fait accompli.

I mean, citizenship is something that cannot be revoked unless it was initially obtained by fraud, and there is no suggestion here the information that you are speaking of was not known to the Government at the time.

ALAN JONES: Right. But Ramsey does say in September 1990, when Hand then approved Hilaly's permanent residence, you, Philip Ruddock, sought under Freedom of Information "all briefings and advisings" in the "grant of resident status to Hilaly and his family." And you were quoted as saying the Minister must be able to justify the decision, and yet you've never had those questions answered.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: No. I mean, you might - the question I would expect from you is why I haven't asked for those papers now and what would I do with it. And essentially I've come to the view that if I can't do anythin! g about the decision, it's going to be pretty silly of me just seeking to look at the papers.

I mean, I know of the concerns. There were security concerns and they were mentioned in that article as well as the vilification of a segment of our community. And I make the point every time I speak in front of Hilaly about the importance of our culturally diverse society and what that means. And I make the point very strongly that, you know, when you've settled in Australia, while we acknowledge that people have different cultural backgrounds, we have an expectation that they'll observe our laws.

And one of the things that disappoints me in relation to immigration laws is that some people seem to think - and Hilaly is arguing this - are entitled to ignore our laws if they relate to immigration. And I don't think you have a society that believes in the rule of law where you say, well, there are some laws that I'll obey and some that I won't.

ALAN JONES: But when ! a bloke says that the Prime Minister of a country has opened the gates to death because asylum seekers have drowned, isn't this an incitement to mobilise his people against those who support the Government?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Look, I mean it is very clear that remarks of that sort, if they were being made - and the sort of remarks that he's made elsewhere - would be matters that we would take into account under the character provisions if we were dealing with a migration application de nevo. They are matters…

ALAN JONES: He's already a permanent citizen.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: He's a permanent resident and citizen.

ALAN JONES: And citizen. But in January last year, is it right that he was sentenced to a year in jail with hard labour after being convicted of smuggling antiquities from Egypt to Australia?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: I believe there was a conviction which he has appealed and that appeal is still being dealt with.

ALAN JONES: And the Sheik's so! n and four other people were also jailed.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: I don't know about that, but I do know that those proceedings were taking place in Egypt and he was the subject of a conviction and that matter has been appealed and that appeal is still being dealt with.

ALAN JONES: It's not fair to the Muslim community, surely, to be represented in the public place by people who speak like this, is it?

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Well, I think the Islamic community have been very concerned about this matter themselves and he's been at times relieved of some of his responsibilities. And as I understand it, he is no longer the Mufti - which was the terms used - for the Supreme Spiritual Leader in Australia. He is just one of a number of imams.

ALAN JONES: Good on you. Thank you for your time because many of my listeners wrote and asked me to ask you those questions. I've done that and you've answered them. I thank you for that.

PHILIP RUDDOCK: Thanks, Alan.
ALAN JONES: Philip Ruddock, the Immigration Minister. There you are, we're inundated with letters and faxes and emails here about all of that. I hope that clarifies it for you. He is an Australian citizen.

29 October 2001"

Why would ANY Australian government,of ANY persuasion allow the importation into Australia, legally and illegally,a sect who's members  only purpose in life is the  elimination of Australians by any and all means possible ?